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Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition; Schumann: Kinderszenen
Leif Ove Andsnes

CDs: 1
Tracks: 32

EMI Classics
Rel. 3 Nov 2009

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On Monday, October 19, Artistic Director Dr. Nolan Gasser caught up with the brilliant Norwegian pianist Leif Ove Andsnes as he was preparing to begin an extensive tour that features a new take on Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition – incorporating a visual component by South African artist Robin Rhode. The collaborative project – entitled "Pictures Re-framed" – begins its tour on November 13 and 14 at Lincoln Center in New York. In this fascinating interview, Mr. Andsnes discusses the inspiration and creative process behind "Pictures Re-framed", and the manner in which his approach to Mussorgsky's piano masterwork has been affected as a result. He also discusses his aesthetic view towards "national" composers such as Grieg and Mussorgsky, his debt to the historic legacy of great pianists, and much more – a truly inspiring conversation!

“And that's what I think I've enjoyed most about this process – that Pictures has become even grander, even bigger for me as a whole with this visual cycle.”

• Nolan Gasser: Let's start with your upcoming tour, and its central focus, your collaboration with South African visual artist Robin Rhode in a new, multi-media performance of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, entitled Pictures Re-framed. Can you talk a bit about the actual genesis of this collaboration: was it initially your idea? Did it come as a proposal of Lincoln Center, who commissioned the work, or from somewhere else? And how did Robin Rhode specifically become your selected partner in this enterprise?

• Leif Ove Andsnes: I had several discussions over the years with Lincoln Center about various possible projects. We had talked about projects with an actor that never materialized. I knew about their interest in programs that combined different disciplines, and I thought maybe we could bring this back to the visual arts somehow, especially film or video arts. I discussed this with Lincoln Center and they were enthusiastic. They put me in contact with a curator in France; I spent a couple of days in Paris looking through a lot of video art with her. When I saw Robin's work, I was very enthusiastic and reacted intuitively; she agreed that he would be a great person for this, and we ended up talking.

• NG: So you knew right from the beginning that you wanted it to be not just still-art, but also to have a video component?

• LA: That was the idea. I'd seen some attempts to have still-art with Pictures at an Exhibition, but my idea was to try it with video or film, so there would be an element of movement and rhythm, and to see what would happen with the music when it ties the work together with video – whether it would create different expressions and different rhythms. And this has been a great learning experience for me.

• NG: I understand that Robin Rhode has had very little background in classical music, and so naturally his input on your performance of the Mussorgsky would be indirect at best – as a response to the images he created for the various "Pictures". Two questions in this regard: first, did you have any direct impact or influence on the images or video presentations Robin used to accompany particular movements; and second, can you talk specifically about how his images have effected your performance – such as the use of an ominous-looking train station for "Bydlo" (Ox cart); or the now-infamous drowning piano for the "Great Gates of Kiev?"

• LA: Well, first of all, I should say that the reason for choosing Mussorgsky's Pictures is in a way quite obvious: it's born from the inspiration of visual arts and from Mussorgsky's friend [artist and architect, Viktor] Hartmann, of course, with his ten pictures. But, it's also not so obvious because Pictures already has such a strong narrative, which makes it a great challenge for other visual artists; how do you deal with that? You don't want to just illustrate a story line when it's already there. So, we talked a lot about that.

  Of course, the real reason for using this piece of music is because it is so strong, and with so many different characters. Within 35 minutes you have 15 movements, with wildly different characters; and you therefore have an opportunity for a visual artist to put together – as Robin has done – 15 different films, each with different techniques. Some have a narrative, and some are very abstract, hopefully forming a unified cycle – as the musical work does.

  With regard to my impact on the images: when I first started working with him, I didn't know him so well, and I wasn't sure whether he was an artist that liked to be left alone, or whether he would like discussion and dialogue. Fortunately, I found out that he wanted to "play ball." He wanted to have my input, my reactions along the way, and that's been great for me. And he says that I've had a great influence on him: I would give my reactions very openly, and he would take them to a completely different level. He's such a creative artist. You give him one idea, and he fires off 20 others on the spot. It's been funny in that way. I would say that some of our meetings have been crucial for the direction of how it's been going. I mean, we talked on the phone and exchanged emails, but when we've actually met a few times here and there along the process, these have been very important moments.

  Robin said that when I played something, it was important for him to understand the psychology behind the composition. The whole thing with the "Promenades" and the Promenade theme appearing again in the "Catacombs", when the figure becomes part of the picture and what then becomes "reality". We discussed these kinds of things a lot, which he says was very important for him.

  For me, I've played the cycle quite a lot. I started playing it six or seven years ago, and have done a lot in concert. It's difficult for me to say how it has changed my playing, but just for example the two movements you mentioned – the "Bydlo" and the drowning of the piano ["The Great Gates of Kiev"]: the images that Robin created for these are so strong. Using "Bydlo" as an example, what he brings to it is such a big horizon that the piece has become bigger for me in a way, when I think about it. It means even more than just this Polish ox cart and exciting musical material. It gets different, new layers that I haven't thought of. And that's what I think I've enjoyed most about this process –that the piece has become even grander, even bigger for me as a whole with this visual cycle. For example, in the way that Robin has investigated Hartmann, who is a figure that classical music has basically dismissed, and has said that he's not a very important artist and Mussorgsky made something very great out of his modest talents. But Robin thinks there must have been something more important between these two artists, that Hartmann was a real artist in his own light. So, all of these things have inspired me to think that this piece of music is even greater than I thought it was.

• NG: Your collaboration makes me think that the short video clip I saw of the two of you playing ping-pong is a good metaphor – a constant back and forth of creative ideas.

• LA: [laughter] Yeah, that is true.

• NG: You had a kind of trial performance of "Pictures Re-framed" at the Risør Chamber Music Festival [Norway] this summer; how did that go, and what if anything did you learn or adjust based on that performance for the upcoming tour proper?

• LA: Well, we had tried it in private environments a couple of times even earlier than that. The Risør concert became the first public performance, which was also then shot by Norwegian Television, which is now being made into a DVD. But, it was a kind of try-out, because it was the first big time we had an audience. There isn't much that has changed from this performance, other than the last two movements: Robin has re-worked "Baba Yaga" quite a bit, which always seemed to be the Achilles heel for him in this project. And then, I think, he has re-worked just a little bit the end of the drowning of the piano. So, these two things he has re-worked quite a bit. We have also been working on the rest of the program – because it's not only Mussorgsky – that's the sort of climax of the program we will be touring with. I'm also, first performing a piece by Thomas Larcher, an Austrian composer. Thomas has worked on two of the movements in his cycle in collaboration with Robin. There are two animations from Robin with the theme of children in them. And that's also a link then to Schumann's Kinderszenen, which I will play earlier in the program. There is also then a short film without music of Robin, in between the Schumann and the Larcher. So, these aspects we have been working on since the summer.

• NG: I wasn't aware of the other elements in the "Pictures Re-framed" concert, so that's nice to hear. I was struck by the fact that you've got such an impressive schedule for "Pictures Re-framed" this season: some 18 performances – starting in Lincoln Center on November 13; with 4 more in the States and Canada, and then across Europe – including in Moscow's Tchaikovsky Concert Hall, which should be a thrill. What's your secret to staying inspired with the same piece of music for so many consecutive performances?

• LA: Normally, I love recital tours with the same program, because it's always a big task to study a whole recital program and to do it for the first time. When you do it for the tenth time, it's like having bird's eye perspective in a different way – you see the details but you're not digging yourself into each of the details. You see it in a broader perspective, and that's wonderful. So, I feel that the performances breathe more with time. Hopefully it will already work well in New York [laughter]... But I just know from experience, that I will feel freer with the tour over time. And in this case, it's such a special project with all of the technical aspects: I'm traveling with three people who are doing the technical stuff and hooking up all of the screens. It's not only one film screen, there are also some screens hanging around; so, it creates a whole stage with abstract paintings, and all that. It's quite a thing to travel with, and will be seen as far from a routine kind of tour – let's put it that way [laughter].

• NG: Yes, it's quite a unique tour for a solo pianist [laughter].

• LA: Yeah, absolutely.

• NG: In addition to the Mussorgsky, you're also featuring several performances of the Rachmaninov 4th Piano Concerto [in G-, Op.40], as well as his 2nd Concerto [in C-, Op.18], and a number of pieces from the wonderful collection of Játékok or "Games" by the Hungarian composer György Kurtág. Of course, you've been playing Rachmaninov for quite a while, but is this perhaps part of a conscious move to focus now on Russian / Eastern European piano music, much as the past few years for you have been so dedicated to music of Scandinavia – not least of your countryman Edvard Grieg, highlighted by your brilliant focus on the Ballade in G- [Op.24]?

• LA: Yes, well thank you. The journey of Rachmaninov concertos is a conscious decision for me, because I decided a few years ago that I wanted to play and record all of them. We recorded the 1st [Op.1] and 2nd with Antonio Pappano in Berlin a few years ago. Since then I've done quite a bit of the 3rd [in D-, Op.30] and I'm actually starting to do the 4th this week in Scotland – I've never performed it; I'm so looking forward to it. It's a neglected, under-rated piece, I think. I'm recording it in April or May also with Pappano and the London Symphony. That concerto is my companion for quite a lot of the season. We recorded then, last spring, the 3rd concerto. So, when I've done the 4th this spring, I'll have completed the four Rachmaninov concertos. And then I'm probably on to something else. So, it isn't so much a journey in Russian music, as a journey in Rachmaninov.

• NG: I see that one of the performances of the 4th Concerto, in January 2010, is with Gustavo Dudamel – the new maestro of the LA Philharmonic – taking over from your long-time friend Mr. Salonen; have you previously worked with Dudamel?

• LA: Yes, we worked twice together about two years ago and I especially had a wonderful experience doing Brahms 2nd [Concerto in Bb, Op.83] with him in Paris with the Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France. And I thought it was just so wonderful! After that we agreed to work more together. I don't think it says on my website, but I'm going to Venezuela in January after the performances with the New York Philharmonic around New Year's. I'm doing a week there with his Simón Bolívar Youth Orchestra. I'm hugely looking forward to that, of course, having heard the good things they are doing. And then we are doing a week in Gothenburg [Sweden] and then the two concerts in the Canary Islands. So, I'm spending most of January with him, and that's a great honor because he's a wonderful musician. So, we're doing Rachmaninov No. 4 and Mozart's [Piano Concerto No.23 in A,] K.488 in Venezuela.

• NG: I'm sure it's going to be great for Dudamel, after his inaugural start in Los Angeles, to go back to his home orchestra. I'm sure that's going to be very exciting.

• LA: It's quite a frenzy in Los Angeles, I understand at the moment with him [laughter].

• NG: Yes [laughter], my friends in Los Angeles say that there are billboards everywhere with "Gustavo!" written on them. He's becoming quite the celebrity.

• LA: It's wonderful. He has the ability to get together people who have had nothing to do with classical music before. That's such a great gift. I wish him all the best and I'm lucky to work with him.

• NG: Indeed, as he is with you. I'm particularly curious, given your identity as a Norwegian musician, and your connection with the music of Grieg and the strongly defined Norwegian musical character – is there something palpable or immediate in your connection to music of a "national" school (whether yours or another) that is distinct from when you perform the more "traditional" piano repertory of Chopin, Brahms, or Schumann?

• LA: I have a sort of lyrical vein in my playing, I guess. I'm interested in music that tells a story. I mean that's very difficult to put into words. But, a lot of this music has a kind of narrative. In Grieg's pieces, it's very difficult to pinpoint why are they so touching – there's such a simplicity to them. But when you compare it to a lot of the other music from this time, it's so much greater. There's obviously something very touching in his harmony. And I think there's also something in the melodies themselves, which are very "speaking." There's a speaking quality to the melodies – which also exists in Norwegian folk music. He was usually inspired by it, and he used some of it – but actually, even more, he created melodies that sounded like folk songs, but were actually created by him. And there is this strong narrative. This is very apparent, of course, in Mussorgsky's music as well. And, for example, in the music of [Leoš] Janácek, who is a composer that I absolutely love: he was somebody who was writing down people's speeches in music, in different dialects and how it sounded, and all that. So maybe there is a certain special affection for the "speaking" quality in different music of national identity. But, I mean, I'm also a lover of Mozart [laughter].

• NG: They don't need to be mutually exclusive, certainly.

• LA: No, absolutely.

• NG: Certainly, the close tie with the land and with the people, by way of folk songs, is a natural, penetrating force within this music, which does indeed, as you say, "speak."

• LA: Exactly, and I think also that we have been through a time when this sort of "absolute" music – the "Great" music was ruling a lot. Now, I also think that no greater music was written for the keyboard – such as Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier or the Beethoven Sonatas or Chopin Ballades... this is the greatest we have. But there is also room for so much more. And maybe we are getting back to a time when people are looking for something different, what I would call "smaller" music – not the greatest music, perhaps, but still wonderful music. I think the "showpieces" of Grieg are one example of that; it doesn't have the universal, existential quality of Beethoven [Piano Sonata No.32 in C-,] Opus 111, but my goodness, it has such a touching quality to it. And I feel that when I'm playing for the audiences all over the world as well – it's not just something for Norwegians. It has national character and, I think maybe that's not so bad in our time of globalization. It's natural for me as a Norwegian musician to have more affinity to that music than to the music of [Spanish composer Isaac] Albéniz or [American composer Aaron] Copland. It's not so much under my skin as with Grieg's music.

• NG: This leads me directly into a follow-up question: in terms of some of the more "existential" composers for the piano – especially given your very broad repertoire and impressive technical and interpretive skills – I can't help but note that there are few composers you've yet to grace with your recordings – to name three: Bach, Beethoven, and Debussy, given especially your affinity with color. So, any particular reasons for the delay wit these composers, or any upcoming plans?

• LA: Interesting you mention these three – in fact, they're the composers that I'm thinking that I want to spend quite a bit of time with. I feel that it's about time for me to dedicate some years to Beethoven. I realize more and more how important that music is in my life. When I was 18 or 19 or so, I made a decision to play all the Beethoven Concertos and all the Rachmaninov Concertos. And this year, as I'm finishing up my Rachmaninov project with the four Piano Concertos, I really want to turn my attention to the Beethoven cycle. I have actually played all the Beethoven Concertos except No.1 [in C, Op.15]. That's one project I will be doing within the next five or six years, to concentrate on those Concertos. And I want to do more of his Sonatas. Also interesting that you mention Debussy, because French music is something that I've not played so much, and which I hope to do more often. And Bach is... well, Bach is always the greatest. He's also just a very demanding composer to study and I hope to get there soon.

• NG: One other topic in terms of repertory that you have not neglected is music of contemporary composers – of course, most notably composers from Scandanavia, including Bent Sørensen, who seems to fall in the so-called post-Impressionist camp; especially a work like The Shadows of Silence (which calls for some interesting humming near the end). Are there particular things you look for in agreeing to tackle a new work, and any thoughts on the responsibilities that performers have toward their contemporary composers?

• LA: Funny you would mention Bent Sørensen, because I just premiered, one week ago, his 2nd Piano Concerto, which he dedicated to me. With the Norwegian Chamber Orchestra, we performed it in Oslo. It's a wonderful piece and I will do it quite a lot.

  Fortunately, today there are such different qualities in different composers. I'm quite selective when I choose. I have to choose something I am touched by – which is difficult enough when you're commissioning a piece, because you don't know what you're getting [laughter]. But, I have to believe that something is going to touch me with the composer. Again, there has to be some kind of feeling of storytelling in it, or sounds that draw you in – a kind of lyricism. Quite a lot of contemporary music written for piano in the ‘70s and ‘80s has a detached theme, which was quite percussive and didn't deal so much with subtle colors or with narrative, and I'm quite happy that that is coming back now. I guess the piano also became a bit out of fashion for composers to use after the 2nd World War. There were so many great pianist-composers before the war. Piano writing was at such an unbelievable level that, I guess, a lot of composers felt that there was nothing more one could do for the piano. But, luckily there is. You look at [György] Ligeti's Studies or [Witold] Lutosławski's Concerto or solo pieces that are already classics. They are developing incredible use of the piano, and still staying within a tradition.

  For me, regarding responsibility to contemporary composers, I would say that it's a very individual thing. For pianists, it's quite easy to become lazy about contemporary music because we have such a wealth of repertoire. Ten, fifteen years ago, it started becoming a need because I wanted to be involved in what was going on in my time and I became curious. I became curious how it was to work with a composer – with an actual living composer, that I could call up, and we could meet. And also, working with my [Risør, Norway] Chamber Music Festival – that was one of the ways I entered into the contemporary field, because we wanted to develop having a resident composer every year. So, it has been a great discovery for me to work with that music; the freedom that you have! Because when you're working on pieces from the past, you have such a burden of interpretive history and recordings, and so many references. With an absolutely new piece of music, of course, you don't have that. So, there's a certain freedom in it which is wonderful. One can learn something from it, and bring it out through the playing even of a Beethoven sonata.

• NG: It's also continuing a great tradition of great works in the 18th and 19th century being spun from a close association between composers and star performers; it's a great legacy to be part of. Two more questions – actually, one and a half: I read on your website that you cite as your biggest influences, beyond your teachers Jiri Hlinka and Jacques de Tiège, the pianists Dinu Lipatti, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Sviatoslav Richter, and Géza Anda – all celebrated for their amazing virtuosity, discipline, and fierce faithfulness to the intentions of the composers, but all decidedly of a by-gone age, having all come into maturity in the 1940s and 50s. What is it about this group of pianists that speaks to you so deeply, and how do you attempt in your own playing to honor their legacy?

• LA: All these you mentioned, they are very different personalities. I think they are such complete artists, but they have laws unto themselves; they are very different. But, I feel that from all of these I can learn so much – and from others as well. I mean, I have a soft spot for Vladimir Horowitz, even if I'm from a completely different thinking and culture and tradition. But, I mean, my goodness, how he could orchestrate a piano!

  I feel very much a part of a tradition. I know there are people who say, "No, I have no models, there's just the future." I feel very much a child of my time, but at the same time I feel a part of a great pianistic tradition. I used a lot of my time earlier in life, not so much now, but earlier, to listen to the old masters. I've learned a lot from them, and it's been very important for me. With an artist like Lipatti, there's such a feeling of inevitability in what he's doing. It's so unbelievably natural, and the technique is amazing. One forgets what an incredible virtuoso he was, because the music just speaks for itself. It's such beauty. And there's a natural state in everything he does, but never overstated. One could call it understatement, but it's not that; it's just there!

  That's the kind of music making that I aspire to very much. I want the audience to feel, not overwhelmed by what they hear and what they see, but rather that they can participate in the listening – so they feel that they are given the room to re-create the music together with the performer on stage, if they want.

  I find it always interesting – this thing about the balance between statement and understatement. In our time there are some exaggerations in music making which sometimes go too far; it's impressive, but what you're being left with afterwards is not so deep. I find often that the deepest concerts are not necessarily the ones that initially strike you the most, but then you leave the hall and you're still really thinking about it; and you feel that you have been part of a great journey, but you might be very quiet afterwards – because you're very reflective. Sorry, that became quite a philosophical answer [laughter].

• NG: No, that's just the kind of answers I'm looking for. I too think it's important to go back to the well of the masters, and to ground ourselves, so that we can find that balance. Being void of our heroes in the forefront of our minds can allow us to lose sight of what is really most important in our act of communicating with an audience.

• LA: Yes, absolutely.

• NG: Okay, so on to my last half question: some of the projects you've taken on in recent years involve such things as playing the Grieg G- Ballade on top of the Hardanger mountains in Norway, and the "Great Gates of Kiev" while the piano gets drowned in the Bergen Harbor... This has led one writer to call you the master of "Extreme Piano". So, what wild pianistic adventures can your fans look forward to in the future – maybe playing on skies as the piano slides down a snow bank?

• LA: [laughter] And this comes right after my lecture about understatement!

• NG: Well, there's always irony...

• LA: Yes. I see that I might end up as a pianist of great gimmicks... [laughter] Well, the thing about the piano on the mountain was because I was doing this TV documentary and they wanted to show mighty wonderful pictures of Norway, and we ended up transporting this piano to the top of the mountain. What you might not know is that this piano is the same one that is being drowned!

• NG: That poor thing!

• LA: So, this piano, this old Ibach piano from 1908, has been on quite a journey. With these two spectacular events, I think I should have a bit of a break from these kinds of projects right now [laughter]. So, there is no downhill skiing in sight for me for a few years.

• NG: Well, I think everyone knows that it's serving an artistic purpose.

• LA: Good [laughter].

• NG: Well, I wish you all of the best in your tour and all of its many parts, and again thank you so much for talking with us, Leif.

• LA: Thanks very much, it was very nice speaking with you.